Same-sex marriage postal plebiscite 'such a waste of money': Bill Shorten

SABRA LANE: Bill Shorten delivered a blistering speech in Parliament yesterday.

The Opposition Leader caned the Government for its postal plebiscite vote on same sex marriage, telling the Prime Minister he would be personally blamed for all the "filth" the debate unleashes.

Yet for all of that, Mr Shorten announced Labor would throw everything into campaigning to achieve a 'yes' result, with the Labor leader personally door-knocking households and wearing out the shoe-leather.

And Mr Shorten joins us now. Good morning, Mr Shorten.

BILL SHORTEN: Good morning, Sabra.

SABRA LANE: How powerful a message would it be for you and the Prime Minister to stand side-by-side on a unity ticket to legalise same-sex marriage? Would you do it?

BILL SHORTEN: Yes, I would. I think that's a fantastic idea. I think it would be great if Malcolm Turnbull and I would co-author a letter to every Australian.

It is important. This whole postal survey is such a waste of money. It's breathtaking and I think people are realising what else could be done with $122 million of taxpayer money. It's such a waste of money.

And yes, I know that Malcolm Turnbull doesn't have a negative view about marriage equality. He supports it.

But he's given license to this debate. You know, this nation has got a lot to be done including marriage equality and the Parliament should do it.

Having said that: if we can't stop the postal survey, well then, we will participate.

And I recommend to Australians to enrol to vote. You've got two weeks.

SABRA LANE: In deciding to campaign for the 'yes' vote, how mindful were you of this argument that division over the mechanics of the vote and talk of a boycott would ensure its defeat?

BILL SHORTEN: I can understand why some people might want to chuck the questionnaire or the survey in the bin, especially if you're in a same-sex relationship.

Why should your relationship have to be submitted to the opinions of strangers in your street and right across the nation?

I think it does treat gay Australians as second-class. No one gets to vote on whether or not anyone else's marriage is a good idea or a bad idea or should be legal.

We changed the Marriage Act 20 times through Parliament; yet somehow now, because it's marriage equality, same-sex marriage, all of a sudden we've got to go and survey everyone in an expensive, unwieldy fashion. It's going to lead to a hateful debate.

When I say hateful debate, though: people often - you know, Mr Turnbull and others say, "Oh, don't you trust people?" Of course, I trust common sense.

But the point about it is: we all know that the idiots and the haters and the trolls are out there and this debate gives them license, in a way which they wouldn't have otherwise have been able to do from under their rocks.

SABRA LANE: They're out there every day.

During your speech to Parliament you said to the Prime Minister: "I hold you responsible for every hurtful bit of filth that this debate will unleash." How that is fair to Malcolm Turnbull?

BILL SHORTEN: Malcolm Turnbull is the Prime Minister of Australia. We should have had a...

SABRA LANE: Indeed, but this is an election promise.

BILL SHORTEN: Oh, spare me. These guys have broken election promises on just about everything you can think of.

And the other thing is: I made an election promise that we would have a vote in Parliament, so I've got to be true to my election promise.

The real issue, though, is: what is in the best interest of the nation? And is it really the best use of $122 million?

We could use this: we've done some research. We could do dialysis for Indigenous Australians in remote communities for decades using this. Thousands of extra nurses, thousands of extra teachers. This could go and help with our police force, keeping us safe.

SABRA LANE: But blaming him for hurtful things: that's like blaming you for dodgy union behaviour, standover tactics, kick-backs that happen within the Australian Workers' Union, because you were once head of the union?

BILL SHORTEN: Well, I've got to say that, when you're prime minister of Australia, I think you have a responsibility for the policies.

I was disappointed. When he says that this is the - he knows it's not the best way to make this decision. We know that his hands are tied by the right wing of his party but to then say, "We're going to have this postal survey but by the way I'll be too busy": like, you either lead and if you don't want to lead, get out of the way.

I mean, what we have is Tony Abbott pushing the 'no' case...

SABRA LANE: I think that's a slightly unfair characterisation. I mean, you're Opposition Leader. He is Prime Minister. There are a range of other things that he has to do as Prime Minister.

BILL SHORTEN: Of course there are. But this nation is capable of doing more than one thing. And by the way, if he's too busy to get involved in this issue, why are we having it?

SABRA LANE: Liberal MP Tim Wilson, who is gay and wants to marry his partner, says that you are guilty of moral posturing on this issue, because Labor failed to change the Marriage Act during its six years in office. How do you respond to that?

BILL SHORTEN: It's just wrong. Listen, I feel...

SABRA LANE: It's not wrong. Labor failed to change the Marriage Act while you were in government.

BILL SHORTEN: Give us half a second, I'll answer your question.

It's wrong. But first of all, let me just say about Tim Wilson: he's been very brave. So I understand his frustration, so I don't take his criticism personally because he's backed in his views within his party room. So I just want to give him that tick, even though he's critical of us.

In terms of the actual statement, though: it doesn't bear examination. We had a vote in the Parliament, 2012. And for the record, I voted for it. So when he says, oh, we didn't do anything: we had a free vote in Parliament from the Labor MPs. The Liberals were bound.

Isn't it ironic that the Liberal Party was happy to have a vote in Parliament when they thought they could win it: the anti-marriage equality people thought they could win it. But now they don't think they can win a vote in Parliament, they want to have this postal survey.

So it is not fair or accurate to say that the Labor Party didn't do anything. And for the record, we removed 88 pieces of discriminatory law against gay Australians from the various laws of the land. So Labor has got a good record.

And we've just made the decision in this marriage equality postal survey, costing $122 million: we've made a decision to participate, not because we think it's a particularly legitimate process. We don't. And not because it changes our mind on marriage equality.

But I want to say to all gay Australians and their families and everyone who loves them: you are not on your own. We support you.

SABRA LANE: The Acting Special Minister of State, Mathias Cormann, has offered to quickly pass legislation to ensure the same strict rules on electoral advertising apply in this postal vote. Will you work with him to ensure its passage next week?

BILL SHORTEN: Oh, we will certainly have a look at it. The reason why they're saying that they need to do this is because Labor's brought to the attention of the Government the complete shambles.

They've wanted to sort of get it - it's legal artifice. It's a dodge. What they've done is: they know that their plebiscite has been defeated in the Parliament, so they've sought to get around it by trying to rely upon the Bureau of Statistics.

The problem with using the Bureau of Statistics is that the protections against some of the things which will happen in this election are not there. And we've raised with the Government: "Hey, if you're going to try and side-step the Parliament, side-step the law, can you please at least cross your T's and dot your I's?"

This mob are a shambles. I just worry that this will be the first of many retreats and patch-ups because this is a Government: we know they haven't thought about this process. They've done it to save Malcolm Turnbull's job in the party room.

SABRA LANE: Indigenous leader Noel Pearson has appealed to you to put off any idea of a referendum on a republic or four-year parliamentary terms, saying that a vote on (an) Indigenous voice to Parliament should come first and not be crowded out by any other issues; that it would be grossly unfair to Indigenous Australia.

If you win the next election, will you pay heed to what he said?

BILL SHORTEN: Oh, I think Noel is aware of what I said at the Garma Festival in north-east Arnhem Land last weekend. I've made it clear that we regard Indigenous recognition as the first cab off the rank. So that's a straightforward "yes".

And what we would like to do is get on with it in this term. Again, I just ask the Government. They say, "Oh, we've got to do one thing at a time. We can't do a lot of things." Well, yes, they do need to do something about out-of-control electricity prices. Yes, they should fix up people's penalty rates but this is...

SABRA LANE: Sure. On the substantive point that he makes: if you win the next election, will you...?

BILL SHORTEN: We've said that it should be the first cab off the rank.

But I'm also making a substantive point: why does this nation just have to wait for Malcolm Turnbull to convince the right wing to do anything?

We've already proposed that we set up a joint parliamentary committee of the Senate and the House to advance what the question for Indigenous recognition would be and we would use the work of the Referendum Council as our starting point.

But I am also committed that we should have an Australian head of state. And I have said that we should have the first question that we should be asking Australians, should an Australian be our head of state? And we should do that.

You know, this is the longest period of constitutional inertia we've had in the history of this country. And Labor thinks that it is good to have our own Australian identity, which has to recognise our first Australians and recognise that it's well overdue for us to have an Australian head of state.

SABRA LANE: Laws passed Parliament on Wednesday to ban sweetheart deals between unions and employers and the Prime Minister says that the new laws could have captured your behaviour as the leader of the Australian Workers' Union; and that you possibly could be in jail if these applied back then.

How do you respond to that?

BILL SHORTEN: Oh, I think that latest outburst says a lot more about him than me. He's there. These are the comments of a man under great pressure and he's desperate to discredit...

SABRA LANE: But they used examples of your life?

BILL SHORTEN: Well, let's look at an example of what they could do. If a worker - these are bad laws that they've passed, by the way.

SABRA LANE: And they're about you, so I'm asking about you.

BILL SHORTEN: Yeah, they are, aren't they?

SABRA LANE: Well, I'm asking about you...

BILL SHORTEN: Don't you think it's ironic...

SABRA LANE: It was examples of your life, jetting off in Richard Pratt's jet and enjoying...

BILL SHORTEN: Don't you think it's remarkable that this Government is so obsessed that they want to pass laws which are just trying, you know, go after unions or particular individuals?

What I would say, as an example of this new law - and it's a real world example: a worker dies on a building site or a work site. The union asks the company to pay something towards the widow. That would be illegal under this new law.

So the Government can say what it wants. I'm very proud of my record of standing up for workers.

SABRA LANE: Four Labor MPs went to see your immigration spokesman, Shayne Neumann, this week, to urge him to take a stronger stand about the ongoing trouble on Manus Island and the latest suicide.

How restive is the left of your party about the immigration policy that you have?

BILL SHORTEN: I couldn't complain or be happier about the support I receive from all of the parliamentary party. Let me just make that point. I think the Liberals must look across the fence and be a bit jealous.

Having said that, there is legitimate concern of what is emerging to be indefinite detention of people on these camps. I think the Government needs to put more energy into getting these people relocated.

I was concerned with the transcript of the Turnbull/Trump phone call, where it seemed to me that Turnbull was saying "Well, you don't have to take anyone, Donald. You just need to be seen to have the agreements still in place."

SABRA LANE: Sure, but we're talking about your own side and what's happening here.

BILL SHORTEN: Well, I think it's not just my own side. I think a lot of Australians are concerned these people are still in these facilities.

So you know, we are happy to support the Government in whatever they do with a bit of energy and a bit of gusto to try and actually see people relocated to third-party nations.

We want to see the American deal succeed, not fail.

SABRA LANE: Mr Shorten, thank you very much for joining AM this morning.

BILL SHORTEN: My pleasure. Thank you.